Feature: Jaffe talks new Twisted Metal, God of War 3 story, next PS3 game
GamePro speaks with Eat Sleep Play co-founders David Jaffe and Scott Campbell about a variety of topics: Twisted Metal, God of War 3 story possibilities, and a hint at the studio's unannounced PS3 game.
David Jaffe is co-founder of Eat Sleep Play, a new studio based out of Salt Lake City, Utah. But you'd probably know him best for his work on Twisted Metal and God of War, two series dearly loved by PlayStation and PS2 owners. Jaffe is known for his quick wit (and quick tongue) and is always a lively interview. Jaffe handles the creative side of his new studio, Eat Sleep Play, while his partner, Scott Campbell, focuses more on the nuts and bolts of game production.
Scott Campbell has a long working relationship with Jaffe, most notably on the Twisted Metal games released by SingleTrac and Incognito Entertainment. Campbell seems happy to let Jaffe answer many of the questions, a fact Jaffe pointed out in our interview when he jokingly labeled himself a "media whore." Nonetheless, Campbell's role at Eat Sleep Play is a vital one, as he handles the finer details of game production while Jaffe concentrates more on the creative direction.
GamePro: You are going to say something outrageous, David, aren't you?
Jaffe: I can't promise that.
Well I appreciate you guys taking the time to talk...
Jaffe: ...F*** you! There you go!
[copious laughter]
That's what I wanted to hear. David, you've said that you're more interested in smaller, more casual games as opposed to big-budget epics. Have you re-thought that position for Eat Sleep Play?
Jaffe: Good question. We did Calling All Cars and we were hoping that, at this point, we would be on full-steam-ahead on nothing but small casual games for the PlayStation Network. But the reality of it is that, though PSN is doing well and has cool content, we were hoping to connect with a lot more people. One of the advantages o working with small games is you can explore quirky, original ideas. One of the negatives is that the net you cast isn't as wide in terms of entertaining a lot of people...or at least as many as we're used to reaching.
For our next [unannounced] game we'll branch out significantly compared to Calling All Cars. We're never going to be making God of War-sized games. When we started Eat Sleep Play, we wanted to swim in the waters between small PSN-sized titles and games as big as Twisted Metal Black. For our next title, you'll see us hanging out on the larger end of that spectrum.
Would Eat Sleep Play ever develop, say, an online-only shooter? Is that a small enough project to fit into your "smaller is better" design approach?
Jaffe: If someone came to us and asked for a game like [online PS3 shooter] Warhawk, that would be towards the far end of our reach. But it's something we'd be comfortable with.
Would you guys like to develop a first-person shooter?
Campbell: I think anything in the action genre would work. I'd get excited about it.
Jaffe: We're more of a mechanics-driven studio. Things like multiplayer shooters...well, the biggest dogs there now are Team Fortress 2 or Call of Duty 4 multiplayer. That's the kind of game we'd gravitate more towards. We're much more interested in gameplay mechanics than the highly scripted scenarios, like the single-player part of Call of Duty 4.
Why do you feel that way? Do cinemas and big storylines take too long to create?
Jaffe: On the creative side, yeah, it's time consuming. I finally got to do a [big story-driven] game with God of War. You make games for the consumer but you also make them for yourself. I still have a good time with Twisted Metal multiplayer and Calling all Cars. When you make games that are heavily based on scripting and story, it's hard to enjoy the process of making them. You never get to enjoy it like a player enjoys it. I almost feel like once I get the story out of my system, I only want to work on elements that I can enjoy as a player and as a game developer.
I've heard John Carmack express similar feelings -- he once famously compared game storylines to porn movie plots. As in, they're just an excuse to get to the action.
Jaffe: That was a great quote. I'm not saying that game storytelling can't work -- Uncharted, Ratchet & Clank, and Call of Duty 4 all benefited from their storytelling. I think those games would have suffered without the story. No doubt about it.
One other quote I often rip off: "There's more emotional impact in an episode of Murder She Wrote than in the best game story ever told." I think that quote's relatively accurate. Some people say "No, no, no, I cried when Aeris died in Final Fantasy VII!" And I [think], "you cried during a cut-scene!" If a developer figures out a way to impact my emotions through interactivity -- the strength of our medium -- then that's exciting.
One of the most emotional video games I've ever played is a Flash game called "Passage." You move a tiny 8-bit sprite character from left to right; every four to five seconds, your character ages. It's a simple, abstract, interactive expression of a life lived. It's great! It's possible to make emotional games, but it's not in my DNA at this point.
Campbell: Our core development team [at Eat Sleep Play] has never been into the story side of gaming. Plus, we barely have time to play new games and stay up-to-date, let alone watch a bunch of second-rate movies that are in the games. I've never been a fan of [storytelling in games], and I don't see that changing.
Moving on to Twisted Metal Head On: Extra Twisted Edition --- why make it for the PS2? It might make more sense as a downloadable PS3 game.
Jaffe: We have PS3 development kits, and we're actively working on a PS3 game right now. We've already released Calling All Cars on the PS3. The PS3 is where our studio's future lies. But there were a couple of reasons [we made the new Twisted Metal for PS2]. Sony asked us for it, and we like our relationship with Sony very much. They needed it, our studio could provide it, and we had a lot of extra content from Twisted Metal Black and Black 2, plus content from Head On that didn't make the cut.
There's over 100 million people with PS2s. We love the PS3, but not everyone can afford it. Plus, from a pure business standpoint, it made sense for us to take on a project we could finish in less than a year. It brings in a little money to get us on our feet without us having to immediately jump into a two-year project...which our new game is going to be.
What's the point of the Sweet Tooth on-foot scenarios in the new Twisted Metal? Twisted Metal is all about vehicles...
Jaffe: That was originally part of [canceled game] Twisted Metal Black 2...
Campbell: Twisted Metal Black 2 was supposed to have a full mission mode for single-player. Some of this carried over from the work we started there. Now it's been folded into presenting the extra features on the game....
Jaffe: ...It's like a museum piece, or Valve's director's commentary in The Orange Box. You walk around as Sweet Tooth and find design docs, concept art, and assets dating back to 1993. If you're a Twisted Metal fan, you'll get a good look at the design process.
I'm a series fan, but I still think Twisted Metal 2 was the best (with Black being a close second). Agree or disagree?
Jaffe: Everybody says that. Head On is tuned more like Twisted Metal 2 was, with some Black influences. If you look at the lost levels we included for Head On, we removed powerups, simplified level layouts, slowed down missiles and weapons. For Head-On, we tried to make it more like Twisted Metal 2 than TM Black. I'm in the same boat: I think TM2 was much better than TM Black.
What do you think hurt Twisted Metal Black? I personally thought it was way too fast...
Jaffe: I totally agree with that. It was too chaotic...that was the first time any of us worked with a game that ran at 60 frames per second! On the PlayStation, Twisted Metal 2 ran at 20 frames per second, and the CPU restricted the number of missiles that could be flying through the air at once. Those limitations made for a bit slower, more strategic game. For Black on the PS2, we said "Dude! We can run at 60 frames!" And that decision...I didn't know it would have ramifications on the moment-to-moment gameplay.
Campbell: We've analyzed Twisted Metal 2 quite a bit. We found out that many of Twisted Metal 2's features weren't design choices, but choices based on the limitations of the original PlayStation. So when we developed Black on the PS2, we turned every knob up [such as game speed]. Maybe we should've done more focus testing.
David, you've expressed a desire for a single standardized gaming platform. Who would set those standards? Will a "one console" future ever happen?
Jaffe: Well...When I first mentioned that, those f***ing fanboys came out of the motherf***ing woodwork on my message boards. I wasn't trying to be a jerk -- I guess the fanboys were thinking "No, I don't want Microsoft or Sony or whoever to be the winner." But it's so not about being a fanboy.
So to clarify, yes, I'm a huge proponent of having a standardized format. Will it ever happen? I don't know. There would be negative consequences, too, particularly for gamers who want bleeding-edge graphics and technology. I can appreciate that, but the advantages mean lower hardware prices and cheaper games for consumers. It also means more creative competition in the software realm, not the hardware realm. I'm a designer, so I'm less interested in the hardware.
Calling All Cars was experimental but also somewhat controversial. Given a second chance, would you handle that game the same way?
Campbell: We've had a lot of discussions about Calling All Cars -- we now have 20/20 hindsight. I think we'd probably change the theme. I liked the theme, but David realized that the theme [and visual style] wasn't conducive to our target audience.
Jaffe: Originally, Calling All Cars was sexy and R-rated. It was going to have a bawdy MAD-magazine style. For a number of reasons that style went away, and it ended up looking more like a G-rated cartoon.
Campbell: None of [those style issues] came up in focus tests. With more time we could've focused more on the single-player side, too, but our focus was the online multiplayer. We were all happy with the game -- it was a good experiment and a good experience.
What's up with your next game, after Twisted Metal? Care to drop a hint to our readers?
Sony PR guy: I knew this was coming. [laughter]
Jaffe: Our next game is absolutely revealed if you have a sharp eye. Our next game is revealed in Twisted Metal Head On: Extra Twisted Edition. It's hidden really, really, really well. And just because it's hidden in Twisted Metal doesn't mean it has anything to do with Twisted Metal. That's why it's so well hidden, possibly. It's a really cryptic riddle we put in there.
David, do you see yourself having any kind of input on God of War 3?
Jaffe: I knew where God of War 3 would end halfway into development of the first game. Five months before I left Sony, I wrote what I consider to be a fantastic story for God of War 3 - seriously, it is awesome.
It deals with the fall of the Greek gods, right? Eventually?
Jaffe: You don't...uh...I'm not gonna...it deals with...ah, it's just f***ing awesome.
I don't know what story they're using for God of War 3. I don't even know how much of my story Cory Barlog planned to use, and I talked to him about it. Now that Cory has left Sony, I have no idea what storyline they'll use for God of War 3.
The other day I had an IM conversation with the God of War 3 writer, who is a freelancer, so she doesn't work for Sony either. Her and I were talking about God of War 3 and we both were saying "Yeah man, that's the story to use." Last I heard, we were talking about maybe having a story meeting in February with the God of War 3 team.
I expressed both to the freelancer and to the head of Sony Santa Monica that I would love to see [my] story be the story featured in God of War 3. But I don't know where it is right now.
But you would be open to working with Sony's God of War 3 team in some sort of consultant role, maybe to help them see your story through?
Jaffe: If they want to work with Eat Sleep Play, and it's something we can afford to do...they don't need my help, they're a great team, but contributing to the God of War 3 story would be a lot of fun.
Let's play a little game. You guys tell me which you prefer...
...Halo 3 or Call of Duty 4?
Jaffe: Call of Duty 4.
Campbell: [pause] Halo.
...Devil May Cry 3 or God of War II?
Jaffe: God of War II.
Campbell: God of War II.
...Geometry Wars or Super Stardust HD?
Jaffe and Campbell: Ooooh....
That's a tough one, innit?
Jaffe: [big pause] I'd have to say Geometry Wars.
Campbell: Yeah, Geometry Wars.
Twisted Metal Head On: Extra Twisted Edition launches for the PS2 on February 5th for $19.99.
Read our news hands-on impressions and see video from Twisted Metal Head On: Extra Twisted Edition..
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